I am devastated that somehow, someone could not have reached Joshua's parents a mere 24 hours ago with accurate and complete information about the risks of putting a baby through circumcision surgery when he is not otherwise in perfectly healthy and stable condition. Physicians should have been the ones to follow the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) protocol which clearly states there is no medical indication for circumcision surgery, and that it is never to be performed upon a baby who is not in the utmost healthy and stable condition.
I am, in fact, appalled that any physician with letters behind his/her name would needlessly slice into the body of an already struggling baby - knowing the risk of cardiac arrest skyrockets during the horrors of genital cutting even for healthy babies (cortisol and other stress hormones spike to incredibly high levels which is very trying on the human heart). Knowing also, of the real risk of hemorrhage, even for healthy babies. Losing just 1 ounce of blood results in hemorrhage, and a loss of merely 2.3 ounces is enough to put a heart-healthy baby into cardiac arrest from blood loss. Knowing, very well, that no medical or health organization in the world recommends circumcision. Again, knowing the AAP has declared since 1999 that there are no medically justified reasons for infant circumcision, and that if the prepuce is amputated for cosmetic reasons, it should never be upon a baby who is not otherwise healthy and strong enough to endure the surgical procedure (one which is commonly done without anesthesia). How did a physician manage to ignore all these things, not give full detailed information to Joshua's parents, and needlessly cut anyway on a baby struggling with a congenital heart defect?
Please, I beg you, review the real risks of circumcision surgery, and the real benefits of keeping our children whole and intact as they come into this world - perfect. The prepuce is not a genital defect - it is a natural, normal, vital (dare I say God-given) organ that plays many important rolls in both men and women. Please, become fully informed on the prepuce, intact care, and circumcision surgery. If you've already lost one baby to circumcision, or have made choices at times when you weren't well equipped with information, know that many of the most life-changing mothers and fathers today are those who were once victims of a myth-filled society along with their son.
The reality is that today more baby boys die from circumcision surgery each year in the United States than from choking, from auto accidents, from suffocation, from SIDS, from (recalled) sleep positioners and from (the newly banned) drop-side cribs. Do not allow your child to suffer or be taken from you for senseless cosmetic amputation surgery upon his perfectly formed penis.
Please.
Hospital Information:
St.Vincent Women's Hospital
8111 Township Line Road
Indianapolis, Indiana 46260
(317) 415-8111 Main Line
St. Vincent is a Catholic Hospital
~~~~
Additional information on newborn circumcision-related death in the United States:
Bollinger, Dan. Lost Boys: An Estimate of U.S. Circumcision-Related Infant Deaths. Thymos: Journal of Boyhood Studies. 2010;4(1):78-90.
Baker RL. Newborn male circumcision: needless and dangerous. Sexual Medicine Today. 1979;3(11):35-36.
Death From Circumcision
Circumcision Information Resource Pages - Death
Doctors Opposing Circumcision - Statement
Circumstitions - Complications
NOHARMM - Complicaitons Incidence
National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers 2010 newsletter
Partial list of those who've died from circumcision
Doctors Re-examine Circumcision
What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Circumcision
Circumcision: The Hidden Trauma
Chidren's Genitals Under the Knife
Circumcision: The Rest of the Story
Several texts examine past research on this subject here
Update: It appears that a few pro-cutting persons posed as 'intactivists' and hurt this family and those trying to help. For a response to this terribly unfortunate situation, see Coias' article here.
~~~~
No words, just love.
ReplyDeleteWhy, why, why???!!! My heart breaks! :'(
ReplyDeleteOf course the team of doctors is going to say it wasn't circumcision! They don't make you sign a consent form because it's without risks-they make you sign one to acknowledge the risks but consent to it anyway. It's very sad that circumcision contributed to his death at that time. Anyone knows that any kind of surgery, pain, or trauma causes significant changes in the heart (even if they are only temporary). It's all very sad...maybe he would have lived longer if he hadn't been circumcised, or maybe he wouldn't have-no one will ever know.
ReplyDeleteThis baby's death just goes to show you how money hungry Dr's are. I'm sure they knew the risks of cutting this baby due to his health issues... yet, they reassured her that he was "stable" enough to go through with it. My heart is broken for this family for their loss, but it could have been prevented.
ReplyDelete"His heart has stopped. Chest compressions and a room full of doctors."
ReplyDeleteI have read this blog several times tonight and every time I get to this line my breath catches in my throat. I can't even fathom having to say or type those words about one of my children. Heartbreaking and tragic, all the more so because it was so preventable. :(
And the official cause of death is listed as cardiac arrest - one more circ death with the true cause forever obscured.
I don't want to put my name to this, lest I be ripped to shreds, but I find it very hard to believe that they relaly think circumcision had nothing to do with his death!!
ReplyDeleteImagine what would happen to an ADULT'S HEALTHY HEART if they were subjected to the torture that we call RIC.
As a mother, I love my children fiercely and there is no way in hell I would submit my ill baby to a totally unneccesary cosmetic surgery in such a fragile state.
Why? WHY?? WHY?!? This baby did not have to die. OK, he had a heart defet, he may have died as an infant. But it didn't have to be for such a godawful stupid reason.
Wow RIP baby boy.... if had known the dangers 4 years ago when i had my son, i would have never done it to him....my thoughts and prayers go out!
ReplyDeleteOf course the doctors reassured them his death had nothing to do with his circumcision- does anyone REALLY expect them to admit that they performed unnecessary, risky surgery on an infant who was already fighting for his life? Admit their negligence and greediness and utter stupidity?? I feel like screaming at the top of my lungs right now its so completely senseless and so many things I have no words for.
ReplyDeleteThat is just so so sad. Those poor parents. What an unnecessary death. My heart goes out to them.
ReplyDeleteHemorrhaging after (unnecessary) cosmetic surgery had "nothing to do with his death?" How is it possible that any doctor would think that putting a medically fragile baby at risk for excessive bleeding for no medical reason is ok? And then have the balls to say the surgery complications weren't a factor in his death? I hope those doctors are sued for all they're worth.
ReplyDeleteHow many more baby boys will die before we WAKE UP and stop this?!?
Horrific, poor baby. I read most of her blog (from the time her son was born) earlier today and then saw the update from her friend. I can not believe that the doctors are telling her the circumcision had nothing to do with it - they are either just trying to make her feel better or cover their butts!
ReplyDeleteMY HEART SO HURTS FOR THIS FAMILY...KEEPING THE FAMILY IN PRAYER. MY GRANDSON NEVER GOT CIRCUMCISED WHEN HE WAS LITTLE AND NOW WE FEAR THE RISK OF HAVING IT DONE. WE ALSO HAVE GONE BACK AND FORTH ABOUT IT NOW I KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT WE WILL NOT BE DOING IT...TY BE BLESSED...
ReplyDeleteOf course the doctors say it has nothing to do with circumcision, they want to avoid a lawsuit.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing a mother can trust when caring for her child, other than prayer and faith in God, is her God given instincts. I can see from the posts that circumcision was not the mom's instinct.
This hospital is trying to avoid a lawsuit by saying that the circumcision was not a factor in his death! I hope these parents will do some research and some sole searching and have the courage to explore the evidence behind cardiac arrest induced by circumcision. :( So incredibly sad!!!
ReplyDeleteMy prayers are with you and your husband, I know what it feels like to loose a child, but god knows what is best. So keep your heads up, because his brought you here and and he will continue to carry you guys through.
ReplyDeleteI almost lost my third son because of a botched induction, which ensued in NICU and four months of hospitalisation.
ReplyDeleteDuring the five weeks in NICU, where I essentially lived, I witnessed several baby boys being butchered just a day or two prior to discharge. Hearing their wails, their screams of terror...that is what made me become an intactivist. Prior to that, I always used to think that only Jews should get circumcised, and if a Christian did, well, that it was their stupidity, their choice.
But watching this butchery made me come to my senses. IT is WRONG!
It is so hard to feel bad for the woman on the one hand, but on the other hand, my heart cries with hers. I hope they insist on an autopsy outside the hospital, and sue for damages so the stupid docs who billed for this totally unnecessary surgery will think twice before recommending it to any other patient, esp. one in NICU!
I went on the blog and cannot figure out if there is a way to contact them. Please, please try to contact the parents or their friend. They should ask for a coroner's inquest into the death, and/or an autopsy, ideally at a different hospital. Please do this.
She wrote yesterday that "I almost killed my baby". She KNOWS.
The md's are at fault for giving wrong info and allowing the procedure, and are just trying to cover their asses. They have no choice but to reassure her... and come up with some bullshit that it was NOT the circ.
A coroner will cost them nothing, but will she light on the truth! This is SO IMPORTANT.(I do not know if you guys have coroners there...we do in Quebec. I would imagine you must have something similar, if not, then another state office or something that looks into suspicious or questionable deaths.
That is something that can really SHOW ALL THE TRUTH. If he died because of complications related to circ, it will say so. It will be in the media. People will become more aware.
NOW is precisely when all the evidence is there, when it is fresh. Now is when they need to do an autopsy. She can even call the cops and have them investigate.
Additionally, the parents can sue. And in any case, should complain to the College of physicians.
Elective surgery in case of a compromised state of health is just crazy! The number one mantra of docs is supposed to be "First do no harm!"
My sincere condolences to the family and I do hope that they find justice. May baby Joshua rest in peace.
Fanny M
"The doctors reassured them over and over that the circumcision had nothing to do with Joshua's death."
ReplyDeleteA barefaced lie.
If this lie is repeated on the death certificate, that is yet more evidence for Dan Bollinger's contention that a conspiracy of deception hides from Americans the truth about the lethality of routine infant circumcision.
I have never heard of a circumcision performed after puberty having a fatal outcome. The conclusion is obvious: circ should be an informed adult choice, which is precisely what we intactivists advocate.
Dear Jill and Shane. I am so very sorry for your loss!
ReplyDeleteOMGosh, this is devastating. I can't imagine the pain these parents are going through. My heart goes out to the family. :-(
ReplyDeleteThank you for posting this. Children should not be subjected to circumcision...it's mutilation. And circumcision definitely played a role in this child's death. Am still surprised by parents twittering while their children die, but that's an argument fir another day. Keep up the vigilance.
ReplyDeleteThis is very heartbreaking and my sympathies go out to the family.
ReplyDeleteAlong with my aching heart I'm quite angry. Not with the parents, it seems they had a tough choice and they did what they thought was right. What angers me is the doctor's claim the procedure had "nothing" to do with baby Joshua's death. A high-risk baby had unnecessary surgery which carried risks such as stress and bleeding....and following this surgery the baby's heart stopped. Why the hell is the doctor trying to justify themselves or the grief-stricken parents? I'm simply dumbfounded and mad over this foolishness.
Don't trivialize the death of a child by trying to sugar-coat his cause of death. Use this opportunity to grow and learn instead of continuing to abuse western medicine.
Have you read this lady's (the mom) blog?
ReplyDelete"I trust in His (God's) plan for our lives, and that Joshua's short life was exacty as He planned."
AND
"The team of neonatologists and cardiologists made it extremely clear that Joshua's cardiac arrest was NOT in any way related to the circumcision. His heart simply could not work any more. He put up a good fight, but he just simply couldn't do it."
Denial. Plain and simple. She's denying any responsibility for her decision to circumcise her already sick baby. Wow.
My heart goes out to the family, as no one should have to go through that. But still, I'm amazed at what I read on the blog. :(
I am a mom of 2 happy, whole boys, ages 7 & 11, who have never had any problems at all from their intact bodies. Gee, not very surprising, eh?
ReplyDeleteI am stunned by your comment that more boys DIE as a result of circumcision than from all of the other things that seem so much more common in our society, based on news reports. Why is the media covering up such statistics? Why don't we hear about all these poor babies dying this way? If people knew how dangerous it really is, I am certain that fewer families would choose to do it. I would love to send links to the data that confirms this to any pregnant friend who is uninformed about this issue.
Joshua's death has opened my eyes. I had no idea there were so many parents who rabidly defend their decision to amputate chronically ill baby boys. It turns out that consenting to elective cosmetic surgery on preemies and babies with heart defects is common, not rare. It makes me swallow bile, but now we know we have our work set out for us. No wonder there is such a backlash of hate; they are all doing it!
ReplyDeleteI have a CHD. Not HLHS, but a CHD nonetheless. I don't like these people representing those with CHDs.
ReplyDeleteI was one of those at one point. 3 1/2 years ago I made that choice (to circumcise) and thankfully still have a healthy little boy. However, with this next baby boy arriving sometime this month, he will remain whole. To tell you the truth, i don't really know what brought me to the light but i know wit had a little something to do with intactivists:) There is hope.
ReplyDeletei told two people my views on circumcision today because of this. we CAN educate others, we CAN can save more perfect little boys. we can't give up.
ReplyDeleteIve been thinking about it all day. Im sure the doctors are saying it was nothing to do with the circ. He was sick so it's easy to cover there ass and blame it on his heart. I live in Australia and I have to admit I don't know a lot about the procedure...because it's just not even mentioned here, in all my pregnancy and birth not once was in mentioned. It didn't even come into my mind. I don't understand why sometime would want there baby to undergo something so awful! I'd be horrified if someone cut off something attached to my body without my consent. The mother should be going out and educating other parents in similar situations about the dangers. At least make something good come out of this poor boys death :(
ReplyDeleteOh, this just breaks my heart. Hugging my four month old right now and I just can't imagine what these parents are going through.
ReplyDeleteWhat heartless monster of a doctor encouraged the parents to agree to this, even knowing how fragile this poor little guy was? No rational person would put a baby that was so delicate through something so stressful.
In normal circumstances, infant circumcision is a breach of morality and human rights but in this case? It sounds much more like murder. I hope the doctor faces some consequences for his action...
This is so hard to believe. How can a parent possibly consider, "but when will he be circumcised?" when they see their baby in a ventilator or incubator?? It's unfathomable.
ReplyDeleteWhat if this had been done to a little girl? Would we then see the connection that genital cutting has in blood loss and consecutive heart failure? Would we then question the doctors for following a parent's request to circumcise their baby whose health was already ailing and whose body and heart was already weak? Would it then be okay for us to be in an uproar over the loss of his life? This is tragic and my heart is broken for this tiny, beautiful baby. I pray you are at peace now, Joshua.
ReplyDeleteShe's been tweeting all day. This is on the mother's page. I shit you not:
ReplyDelete@TheEllenShow I just lost my 7 wk old son today. died in my arms. the anti circumcision community is bullying. he died of CHD not circ. help
I've lost SEVEN children to miscarriage. I couldn't imagine holding and bonding with a seven week old to loose it. I'd be ready to jump off a bridge. Not tweeting.
Lisa - never thought of that... true! if a girl had been cut, hemorrhaged, and then died from heart-failure due to blood loss we'd be SCREAMING about it... for the sake of the baby.
ReplyDeleteHow about this: even if he didn't die of the circumcision, if he was in poor health why the hell did he deserve to spend a MINUTE of what little time he had in agony and terror from an elective, cosmetic surgery? What would people say if a woman says she wants them to give her critically ill child a piercing or tattoo?
ReplyDeleteWow, I just went to the ANI page to see more commentary.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.asnatureintended.info/
Amazing... People really disgust me.
It's really unfortunate. Most of the "vile" comments being sent to the mother (as has happened to others in the past) were anonymous. It is likely that they are coming from someone who is pro-circ and wants to upset the cart and make intactivists look bad. What if they are all trolls? This whole thing seems very strange. And I do not know one single intactivist (or anyone associated with peaceful parenting) who would ever, ever hurt or attack or send something nasty to any mother - not to mention a grieving one. Can't people see the truth for what it is?
ReplyDeleteI'm a nurse. I've worked plenty with level II neonatal graduates (kids who are born preemie and with many anomalies.) You would be shocked to know just how common this is. These are the same parents who get upset at you because have to draw blood for a lab sample or because you have to replace a cannula or feeding tube. But they think nothing of genital amputation. These are kids with CHD, BPD, oxygen-dependent!! It's SICK.
ReplyDeleteRE: the tweeting to Ellen - how interesting that Ellen has been talking about this very issue lately...and the last time things flared up they used the bullying accusation...I'm telling you there is more going on here....
ReplyDeleteCan't you see the headlines?
ReplyDelete"A mother attacked by other mothers for following her doctors advice and consenting to a common/routine procedure on her son"??!? Ugh..
Having to watch my tiny boy getting blood draws and tube insert after insert was one reason we reconsidered circumcision. The doctor actually pointed out "You see how hard it is just to watch him get pricked by a small needle, can you imagine having to watch him go through a circumcision?" That REALLY resonated with me.
ReplyDeleteThis was posted in several places on facebook about baby Joshua about a week ago:
ReplyDeletePray for baby Joshua again!! He crashed a few days ago and continues to have seizures, as a result, since last night!! This could be due to meningitis (doubtful), withdrawal, or (worse) brain damage, due to the crash because his brain might've been deprived from oxygen for a little while when it happened!! PLEASE keep them all in prayers; he was doing so well...
How on earth (honestly - how?) could anyone (doctor, parent, or stranger looking on) even think to cut into this baby's body for cosmetic reasons when he is already dealing with so much more? It is just awful that he had no one standing up for his rights to only face those surgical procedures necessary to save his life.
Of course they made it "clear to the family that death was not a result of circumcision but solely heart failure." Blame the baby's death on the baby, not on the doctors or hospitals who can be slammed with a lawsuit. Sounds like a major CYA excuse to me.
ReplyDeleteFrom the mother's blog: "I should have known better. I should have said no...please know I would have never said yes if I had known it would have turned out this way."
ReplyDeleteHer precious baby is gone :'(
There is no good reason to for circumcision :'(
No family should have to endure this :'(
Shame on doctors for letting this happen :'(
THIS is only one of the many reasons that I decided to leave my son intact.
ReplyDeleteThis blogger announced that her son was going in for a circumcision yesterday.
Her post was filled with comments warning her that her child could die as a result (at least 100 babies die from circumcision complications every year in the U.S. alone).
Her child died as a result of his circumcision, just hours ago.
Rethink it people, rethink it.
Psychologically, she NEEDS to believe her decision to have her son cut did not end his life. For their own reasons, the doctors need her (and us) to believe it, too.
ReplyDeletePlease know that there is a lot of heart in the intactivist community - and we are hurting over this. I will not pretend to know what she is going through. I will not judge her. But I will tell her story. To anybody who will listen. We fight day in and day out to END needless suffering. I am so very saddened that her family is suffering and I am sorry if anyone is adding to it. I want her to know - we are hurting with her. I hope she will join us someday. Peace and love to her family - rest in peace, beautiful baby boy.
This blog post was written October 5th when the writer and mother consented to her son's circumcision and it put him in very serious condition.
ReplyDeletehttp://fierceandfiesty.blogspot.com/2010/10/i-almost-killed-my-baby.html
Today this boy, Joshua, died. During the circumcision surgery they hit an artery, his death was recorded as cardiac arrest, but if you are familiar with the effect of circumcision on a baby's heart you know all too well that it puts extraordinary stress on little hearts.
Another innocent life is lost to genital reduction surgery.
"She's been tweeting all day. This is on the mother's page. I shit you not:
ReplyDelete@TheEllenShow I just lost my 7 wk old son today. died in my arms. the anti circumcision community is bullying. he died of CHD not circ. help
I've lost SEVEN children to miscarriage. I couldn't imagine holding and bonding with a seven week old to loose it. I'd be ready to jump off a bridge. Not tweeting."
Different people react different ways. Looks like she is directing her natural anger at us, since she won't let herself blame God, or her husband, or herself, or the doctors who've been caring for the baby since before birth.
I haven't seen the bullying referred to; it would be heartless to berate a mother who's just lost a baby in such tragic circumstances.
Me, I've just been sad all day, but it does remind me that we are on the right track, it IS a big deal, and what I rather self-mockingly call "saving babies" may sometimes be just that.
To peaceful parenting and all informed men and women: please please please continue what you do to raise awareness about this subject.
ReplyDeleteI am a mother of two healthy (thankfully) circumsized boys. They are cut because I didn't know the risks. Because their dad is cut. Because I thought every male was cut.
I speak very loudly about this subject now because it breaks my heart that I put my tiny boys through this pain, and risked their lives in the process without even knowing it. I can only pray that someday no babies go through any type of senseless genital mutilation by a medical community who knows better.
Keep informing men and women. Thank you for all you do.
"I should have known better. I should have said no. I had hoped that he would do well and that it wouldn't be such a big deal. But instead, I almost killed my child by consenting.
ReplyDeleteWhy can't this poor baby catch a break? Why can't he just have one thing go right for him? Why did I have to say yes?
I'm watching him sleep and I'm struggling with extreme guilt over all of this. I put him through it. Shane and I chose to have this done to him. It wasn't necessary. Why did we do that? Why is this so freaking hard?"
those are her own words. I have none of my own to add.
For a doctor to perform a circumcison on an already compromised infant is irresponsible, reprehensible and should be up for disciplinary action. And by the way, where were the nurses in all this that could have written a letter of concern r/t to this procedure? I am an R.N. and am outraged.
ReplyDeleteI am deeply sorry for your loss. I would like to take a moment to comment on your doctors if you don't mind. Ordinarily, when people are guilty, they don't want to own up to it, especially if they stand to lose a lot of money.
ReplyDeleteI hope that in the next few weeks or months that you & your spouse begin to question what the doctors advised you regarding circumcision. AND. What they told you after your son passed away (that it didn't exacerbate an already medically unstable child). I'm certain that it did; but why would they want you to think about that? They don't.
It's more than likely that they are afraid that you will figure out what they already know. Whether or not the circumcision played a part in the overall stress that contributed to your son's death is for you (or a jury) to decide.
I recommend that when you are ready to, that you give this more in-depth thought and do some research on circumcision. Perhaps I see medical malpractice because I am not grieving for a child right now.
Perhaps it's because I know what ALL medical societies say about circumcision. That it is medically unnecessary surgery. They also instruct doctors NOT to perform it unless it is on a STABLE, HEALTHY child. That doesn't sound like your child does it?
When you are ready I would sue those bastards for all that they are worth!
Peace and healing to you & your family.
It is absolutely shameless the way it is being "made clear" to this mother that her son's death "wasn't from the circumcision."
ReplyDeleteIt is quite obvious that this autopsy was full of self-interest; interest in finding "no connection" and thus no blame to circumcision.
Have another doctor take a look. But she won't do it, and do you know why? Because "it wasn't the circumcision" is precisely what this woman wants to hear. It's like this strange symbiotic relationship.
The woman is praying to god her son's death was not the circumcision (and therefore not her fault that she decided to do it), and the doctor is praying to god that she doesn't press charges. It works out just fine.
All of us who read the blog witnessed it. We know why the child died and who killed him. Doctors will try with all their might to hold the fabricated autopsy over our "lay" heads, but we know it's only their belligerence in trying to "silence the lay people," because they know their guilt.
Let us save these posts, document them and blog them. They are written in clear detail, and they document the child's clear and sure death.
What is pissing me off is how this woman is surrounded by people who call themselves "Christians," and yet they were encouraging her to circumcise her child, even despite his fragile condition. Even though it's written in Galatians 5 plainly that circumcision is forbidden to gentiles.
So you encourage a woman to do something that is clearly against the bible, and then you try to console her by saying things like "he's in Jesus' arms now."
Really? Does god forgive you for knowingly sacrificing your child?
We all know how this child died and who killed him. We must not be silent and let these disgusting, shameless doctors get away with misreporting this child's death.
Speaking the truth is only "bullying" to the guilty.
How heartbreaking :(
ReplyDeleteMy ex was born with a heart condition, and this is presumably why he wasn't circumcised.
I read a lot of the comments on ANI's page and it makes more sense to me now...at first I was thinking this all had to be made up - could there be *this* many people who don't get it or see that most intactivists (including the ones at pp) have always loved and comforted with wide open arms all those they meet? But now it makes sense - there are heavy hitting pro-circ individuals behind it all - these people are PISSED because they are guilty of the same thing. This has absolutely nothing to do with judging or CHD or even the consequences of what happened. It's just a bunch of pro-MGM commentators who've been sent out on a mission to attack various sites. And like sheeple, they seem to follow.
ReplyDeleteTonight I was at the ER with a good friend and her 15 month old son who wasn't breathing well. They put a mask over his little face for some breathing meds and we had to hold his arms down via the pulse ox on his foot I watched his heart rate rocket up to 203bpm!!! I thought of this sweet baby and tried to imagine how high a heart rate might go if one was strapped down on a table having their genitals cut apart. MUCH higher I imagine. Poor sweet baby...and his mother...so sorry for their loss. :*(
ReplyDeleteThis is just ridiculous. How many times does this need to happen for people to stop being shallow? So yes, child dies from sexual assault... why not just say it like it is.
ReplyDeleteI like how the hospital and doctor stated that 'it wasn't the circ: that killed him". No... the circ caused stress on the poor child who then had heart failure due to higher blood pressure... but no... the circ had nothing to do with it
It almost seems as if the parents were coerced into having it done immediately. The risk of bleeding is not worse when children are older because they use stitches at that point. With neonates, stitches and general anesthetic cannot be used because it furthers the risk of heart failure.
ReplyDeleteYou know, you say you wish someone could have reached them with accurate info (and that is the job of the docs!) but there were also over 100 comments on Jill's public blog about the pending circumcision surgery, urging her to reconsider due to the high risk of death for infants with heart conditions. So there were people trying to reach out to them. I even saw one comment from someone else who thought their baby did die from heart failure soon after a circumcision. If we can't listen to parents like that telling their story, then who are we going to listen to?
ReplyDeleteI published an article that estimated about 117 boys die each year in the U.S. from circumcision in order to educate docs and parents about this very real risk, and prevent tradegies like this. And then Joshua dies just a few miles from where I live. Words cannot express what I am feeling right now.
ReplyDeleteParents, if you are expecting and reading this, go to http://circumcisiondecisionmaker.com/ before you sign that consent form!
This is just heartbreaking. Perhaps due to this horrific tragedy a few more parents might hear the story and reconsidering cutting their boy. But mostly it's just so sad.
ReplyDeleteMy heart aches for this family, and wishes that Joshua's doctors had been up front and honest w/ the complications he would face, and the seriousness of a needless cosmetic surgery. My oldest son was also born with a congenital heart defect. We had planned to circumcise him, because it what was "normal" in our family. His NICU doctors talked us out of it, because of the serious risks involved. If we had consented, he would have required extremely high doses of antibiotics and been at risk for endocarditis. We chose to keep him intact. Our youngest is also intact, and heart healthy. I'm thankful everyday for their honesty, and credit the neonatologist team who treated my son, for me becoming an intactivist.
ReplyDeleteA friend of mine posted a link to her blog yesterday, when the last post was that he had died (received full healing).
ReplyDeleteIn the comments on her thread, I said, "They're going to say his circumcision had nothing to do with his death - it was that his heart was too sick to keep going. That the bleeding for 4 hours in his tiny, compromised body due to cosmetic surgery was completely irrelevant."
Sometimes I hate when I'm right.
Neither of my boys had the circumcision done... and they are healthy and happy grown men (31 and 28) with families. They are proof it's not necessary. We knew back then the risks and took steps FULLY INFORMED and made the CONSCIOUS DECISION to leave them intact.
ReplyDeletePrayers to Jill and Shane for comfort and peace as they grieve the loss of their little one. ♥
My two teens and my preschooler are all circumsized. I was not informed or educated about the risks. Had I been, they would all be intact. After reading about this story, I went and talked to my teenagers. I told them the statistics (they were horrified!) and apologized to them for risking their lives. It is too late for them, but it won't be too late for my grandsons!! Thank you for your blog!
ReplyDeleteIt is true that it's heartbreaking. I found the story because someone posted your link on Facebook. I don't know who put my link as a permalink on your page but I appreciate it..
ReplyDeleteBefore our sons birth I was convinced either way what should be done. I researched and researched and wanted him to stay intact but my husband wanted circumcision. I gave in and let him be circumcised. Luckily, so far there have been no complications except for the fact that it wasn't completely done. Every day for the past 11 wks (12 wks tomorrow) I feel guilt for not fighting harder, for allowing it to be done. Every day, I have sent my husband websites and videos and all sorts of proof that this shouldn't have been done, that he was perfect before. Today, I broke down and cried and begged him to forgive me. I only hope as an adult, he will. If he has brother's they WILL NOT be circumcised. I will fight harder.
ReplyDeleteThis poor woman. I don't think I could carry the guilt she must feel.
Joshua deserves a media outlet for his story to be told. Like others before them, what they endured should not be in vain.
ReplyDeleteCircumcision killed this child. The doctor urged circumcision despite the fact that the child was already struggling for life.
"Cardiac arrest" is often caused by prolonged bleeding, which was caused by the circumcision. Had that child not been circumcised he would have still been alive. Let's not let the media help doctors or anyone deny it.
Oh sweet mama... I am so sorry your baby was taken too soon.
ReplyDeleteMy husband is intact solely because he, too, was born with a CHD. No one would touch his tiny member to cut him (even though his own father wanted it done). Decades later, and knowing what he knows now, he is so thankful his heart spared him such things. And I must say, I am blessed too.
No one here has mentioned what the Bible says on the subject - but I think, being that the family are believers, it is appropriate to include something for someone to go for more if they wish. I know you have a lot here gathered, that your heart is in the right place, and I have used it many times when talking with other young moms at our church.
http://www.drmomma.org/2009/06/information-on-circumcision-for.html
Thank you for doing what you do, and prayers for the Haskins family. I've followed your posts on your blog and various Facebook pages, and I hope there is healing and good that somehow comes from this loss and pain.
There's a rumor that intactivists are planning on protesting Joshua's funeral. This sounds like an attempt to make us equal to the Phelps family. Never. Not ONCE have intactivists EVER harrassed parents at a child's funeral. Not EVER. That is not in our nature. Rather than be quiet, we need to make sure we are heard.
ReplyDeleteStories like these make me sad for all the babies that are forced to endure this procedure while at the same time, fighting for their lives.
ReplyDeleteMy husband was one such baby that should never have been circ'd. He was born with shingles because my MIL had chicken pox in the last trimester. He was a preemie that had to attached to a respirator for the first two months of his life. He had a feeding tube. He would have seizures every day for the first two weeks and it was later found out that he has a hole in his brain from an amnio.
All of this going on in his short life and my MIL had him circ'd. It breaks my heart knowing the pain these poor babies are feeling. I can barely even wrap my mind around it.
the fight for babies' rights cannot be at the parents' level. it's just too emotional, as we've all witnessed the last couple days.
ReplyDeletewe need to push the doctors, the hospitals, the insurance companies, and legislature. laws need to be passed to protect baby boys and the AAP needs to speak out strongly against routine infant circumcision.
you can email the AAP here:
http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/5922/t/6483/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=2544
Joseph - here is my response on those lies that two bad apples (Gina and "CircInfo") started about the intactivist community at large:
ReplyDelete"I am an intactivist, and I have many intactivist friends. None of us, would ever do this at a funeral or to a grieving family. This is a rumor, and it is proven on the site mentioned above. I am disappointed in the proCIRC community for claiming such lies about passionate people who stand up for the rights of helpless infants in peaceful caring ways. Even if there was one intactivist that became nasty, ONE BAD EGG DOES NOT MEAN ALL THE EGGS ARE BAD!"
Like others have mentioned, I believe it was the procirc people (maybe even one or two of them) who started the attack posing as intactivists. We all know that no one who cares deeply about the wellbeing of babies would trample on the heart of a family.
Thought this news brief commentary was especially insightful.
ReplyDelete-
Intactivists and others have been following baby Joshua's progress through his mother's blog, but I am left devastated today by the news of how he died. How could any ethical physician circumcise a child in these straits? How could any hospital allow it to go forward? How could any thinking parent heap risk upon risk? How could devout Christians believe circumcision was a duty they must fulfill at the earliest chance, even knowing it could kill their baby? (which it did)
Jill Powley Haskins and her husband, Shane, live in Indiana. They are the parents of Caleb, Hannah, and the recently-deceased Joshua (specifically, shortly before 9 am this morning).
http://fierceandfiesty.blogspot.com/
And specifically the entry on their decision to circumcise:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:aox2Agdl6-QJ:fierceandfiesty.blogspot.com/2010/10/circumcision.html+real+life+of+a+red+head+circumcision&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Plenty of new "excuses" and inconsistencies for Circumstitions.com:
[Note: A "Glenn" refers to a Bidirectional Glenn procedure or Hemi-Fontan (also Kawashima procedure), which involves redirecting oxygen-poor blood from the top of the body to the lungs. It is an open-heart procedure used in children with complex congenital heart defects.]
"We had Mason circ'd too in order to avoid him and his big brother 'comparing' LOL." posted by Neysa, aka BlessedMommy on Oct 5, 2010 at 11:21
"Our little one, James, had a surprise hernia at 5 weeks old, so they did his then because they wouldn't do his during his omphalocele repair." posted by Bernie, aka Our Family on Oct 5, 2010 at 14:51
"We were not allowed [to circumcise] until after the Glenn either, Colin actually got it done right around his 1st birthday in combination with getting tubes in his ears, he was fine & playing that night. He NEVER noticed!" posted by Jennifer on Oct 5, 2010 at 14:15
"Our doctor wouldn't circumcize before the Glenn, just because of how fragile they are. We're just trying to figure out how to get it done now. Kind of pain, but not an uncommon situation for heart mamas to find themselves in!" posted by Amy Bennett on Oct 5, 2010 at 13:39
It is absolutely horrifying how many of these American parents are obsessing how to get around the "inconvenience" of their child's fragile health to finally have that all-important circumcision.
Some simply plow ahead at the most vulnerable moment and the results are devastating.
I just want to scream.
Martin M.
This baby had a congenital heart problem that kills about 1/3 (33%) of those who have it by age 3, mainly because they die in one of the 3 progressive surgeries that are required to make half their heart do the work of a whole heart. But 75% of these babies live past the first surgery, longer than Joshua.
ReplyDeleteWhat a surprise that the doctors who authorized risky unnecessary cosmetic surgery for an unstable infant would deny that the surgery had any impact on his health.
ReplyDeleteHow did the parents, as devout Christians, come up with this business about how circumcision is a Christian responsibility or requirement, and it has to be done right away?
ReplyDeleteI have heard many Christians claim that the New Testament doesn't prohibit circumcision, even though it sure seems to. But I've never heard that it is required and has to be done not long after birth. That's a new one on me.
Maybe this explains why the circumcision rate in some Bible Belt states is so amazingly high (it used to be 85% in South Carolina).
"Behold, I, Paul, tell you that if you be circumcised, Christ will be of no advantage to you." – Gal 5:2
"And even those who advocate circumcision don’t really keep the whole law. They only want you to be circumcised so they can brag about it and claim you as their disciples." – Gal 6:13
"For there are many who rebel against right teaching; they engage in useless talk and deceive people. This is especially true of those who insist on circumcision for salvation. They must be silenced. By their wrong teaching, they have already turned whole families away from the truth. Such teachers only want your money" – Titus 1:10-11
"Watch out for those wicked men – dangerous dogs, I call them – who say you must be circumcised. Beware of the evil doers. Beware of the mutilation. For it isn’t the cutting of our bodies that makes us children of God; it is worshiping him with our spirits." – Phil 3:2-3
"And I testify again to every male who receives circumcision, that he is in debt to keep the whole Law. You who do so have been severed from Christ...you have fallen from grace." - Gal 5:3
"As God has called each man, in this manner let him walk. And thus I command in all the churches. Was any man called in the circumcision [Old Covenant]? Let him not try to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in the uncircumcision [New Covenant in Christ]? Let him not be circumcised! Circumcision is nothing. And uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God. Let each man remain in that condition in which he was called." - 1 Cor. 7:17
"And some men came and were teaching the brethren, 'Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.' But Paul and Barnabas together had great dissension and disputing with these men. . . Then Peter stood up and said to them 'Why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" - Acts 15:1-2, 7, 10
"But if I still proclaim circumcision. . . then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished." - Gal 5:11
"I wish that those who are pushing you to do so would mutilate themselves!" - Gal 5:12
In other accounts I have read of infants who have died from being circumcised, there appears to be a common thread of shared responsibility. The blame cannot be placed at the doorstep of only one person.
ReplyDeleteThe doctors who agreed to circumcise an infant whose health is already compromised certainly bear some responsibility. The parents who mistakenly place a religious importance on early circumcision over the immediate medical needs of their child are, too, at fault. Over the seven weeks of Joshua's ordeal, I would suspect that others would have been aware of the parents' intent to proceed with the circumcision. Didn't anyone speak up and say STOP? The circ can wait until Joshua is healthy enough to endure the surgery.
Christians believe that baptism is necessary for salvation. Pouring a little water over the infant's head was all that was needed...no trauma. Circumcision, a traumatic event for the healthiest of infants was, at the very least, an unnecessary stress on an already weak heart.
Was there no pastor who would counsel the parents that God would not want to put the child's life at risk for the sake of a ritual that is not even required of Christians?
There is just so much wrong with what has happened to this family. It ties back into the other post that talks about the ignorance that most Americans have about their religions. (Circumcision is not a Christian requirement.)
Back to the doctors. I just got back from the AAP Conference in San Francisco. Many of the doctors we talked with stated that they were opposed to RIC, but if the parents requested that their son be circumcised, they would do it. Herein lies much of the problem. Doctors (I know this is a generalization, but I believe it applies) are unwilling to tell the parents NO, I will not perform medically unnecessary surgery on a non-consenting minor. They don't want to lose the income from the surgery or risk losing a paying customer.
It was very clear from talking to the doctors that medicine is a business and that ethics takes a back seat to profits. So doctors agreed to circumcise Joshua, at parent request, and then assure the parents that his death was not related to the circumcision. They don't think that the extra stress put on an already weak heart lead to Joshua's premature death. I would not put much faith in the diagnostic skills of these physicians if they can make such a blatantly ridiculous statement. Although I suspect that the doctors may just have been trying to not make the parents feel bad for their decision to go ahead with the circ. But in the process, by making a public statement, they are hiding the truth about the so-called "adverse affects" resulting from circumcision.
What the doctors did (agree to circumcise although they're against RIC) would have been unethical even for a healthy baby. That they agreed to do it for such a seriously ill baby should be a prosecutable criminal offense.
ReplyDeleteDoctors are hiding behind their credentials (they're the experts) in order to essentially duck what should be a criminal prosecution. That's why they have to lie through their teeth, and say circumcision played no part in the death of the baby.
The doctors are in cover-their-ass mode and the parents are in complete denial.
ReplyDeleteAwful, just awful.
Stop being bullied into circumcision and find everything you need on the subject including affirmation visuals for your own profile at:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.myspace.com/intactivist
Auntie Patricia said it best, this was an iatrogenic cardiac arrest. If the "dr" didn't cut into a very sick baby's penis NEEDLESSLY baby Joseph would've had a much longer life.
ReplyDeleteMay I have the statistic and where it can be found that more boys are dying of circumcision than car accidents, chocking, SIDS, etc? That would be helpful, because I would like to use that stat, but I need to where where this information was derived from.
ReplyDeletePerhaps denial is part of this woman's grieving process. In her heart, she knows what's up and will need to come to terms with that. Best for us to send love to this whole family. It must be horrible to know we made a choice that caused the death of our baby.
ReplyDeletePlease take a moment to write the coroner and ask him to investigate Baby Joshua Haskins' death.
ReplyDeleteHere is my draft letter, if you wish to use part or all of it. Do not forget to include your name, address, telephone number and e-mail address. More than one letter is needed to get their attention. It is their duty to intervene. Please share and re-post. - F.M.
(You can access the cached version of this blog post - now removed - at Google "The Real Life of a Red Head: I almost killed my baby" and "The Real Life of a Red Head: Circumcision," clicking on the "cached.")
(cont.)
(cont.)
ReplyDeleteOctober 8, 2010
The Marion County Coroner's Office
521 West McCarty Street
Indianapolis, IN 46225
Tel: (317) 327-4744 | Fax: 317-327-4563
Pathology Tel: (317) 327-5840 | Fax: 317-327-5798
Email: info@marioncountycoroner.org
URGENT MESSAGE
WITHOUT PREJUDICE
Subject: Baby Joshua Haskins, born August 16, 2010; deceased October 6, 2010 less than 24 hours after elective circumcision.
Could you please investigate the sudden, premature death of baby Joshua Haskins born at Peyton County hospital on August 16, 2010, and deceased October 6, 2010 while in NICU at same hospital, less than 24 hours after elective circumcision?
Please see the mother's blog, since removed, but cached here:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qjxvRpe6Tj0J:fierceandfiesty.blogspot.com/2010/10/i-almost-killed-my-baby.html+i+almost+killed+my+baby&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
and
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:aox2Agdl6-QJ:fierceandfiesty.blogspot.com/2010/10/circumcision.html+the+real+life+of+a+red+head+circumcision&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Baby Joshua Haskins continued bleeding after having been circumcised on Tuesday, October 5, 2010, despite having a very serious heart condition, Hypoplastic Left Heart Syndrome, which rendered him unfit for circumcision according to AAP guidelines.
The mother and father appear to have been pressured to carry out the circumcision, because doctors apparently told them that Joshua would bleed less if done immediately. In addition, the baby was already on aspirin, a blood thinner which obviously would have further exacerbated any bleeding risks.
The staff has simply listed his death as being the result of "cardiac arrest." However, what was the underlying reason for the cardiac arrest? Would the cardiac arrest have happened if the baby had not been circumcised and the baby had not bled profusely for 7 hours following the surgery?
The parents obviously feel extremely guilty, which is why they have removed the aforementioned blog post entitled "I almost killed my baby" after their baby did, in fact, die.
Facts of the matter suggest this baby did in fact die as a result of complications from an unnecessary circumcision surgery, which was done only for cosmetic and elective purposes, and SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN CARRIED OUT, considering the baby's compromised state of health.
Please note that the circumcision was carried out on Tuesday, October 5, 2010, and in less than 24 hours, the baby had died, October 6, 2010, which points to a causal relation between his death and the elective circumcision to which he was subjected.
His death is CLEARLY NOT natural, even pending his heart condition, and is of a suspicious nature, warranting the rapid investigation of your office.
Please do act NOW, as the visitation is scheduled Friday, with the funeral planned on Saturday. As from the blog: http://fierceandfiesty.blogspot.com/
"The viewing will be held at Myers Funeral Home in Huntington. See link for address. Viewing hours are from 6pm-8pm Eastern Time.
"The funeral will be held at New Hope United Bretheren Church in Huntington. It is located at 2001 Engle Rd. Huntington. Funeral will be held at 11am but the doors will open at 10am."
In the likely event that you require an autopsy (as conveniently for the doctors who advocated circumcision, NONE has been carried out), action must be taken quickly.
Thank you in advance for your assistance in finding out the facts in the death of infant, Joshua Haskins.
Sincerely,
Encl.: excerpts from Jill Haskins’ (mother) blog
R.I.P. Baby Joshua
N.Krop - Notice that each of those conditions is highlighted and hyperlinked in the paragraph above. Clicking on each one will take you to another article about that specific item (with additional statistics information.)
ReplyDeleteCliff Notes version: Baby Joshua was circumcised and the doctor botched it. The baby started bleeding. They applied pressure for 2 hours, but the bleeding still did not stop. Finally, a urologist came in and discovered a nicked blood vessel. Several hours after the circumcision, the bleeding was finally stopped. The baby suffered from congenital heart disease. His heart was weakened and his body most likely could not tolerate the stress and trauma caused by his infant circumcision. The baby was dead the next morning. The doctors claim the circumcision had nothing to do with the boy's death. Most likely they are saying that to avoid a malpractice lawsuit.
ReplyDeleteThe above info came from the mother's blog post titled "I almost killed my son" that she made shortly after the bleeding stopped. She has taken down that post.
@FannyM: The LAST thing the family needs now is an autopsy, and it wouldn't do any good. There are ample medical records, but it could never be proved that the circumcision caused poor Joshua's death when he had so much else the matter. What we can say with certainty is that circumcising him did him no good.
ReplyDeleteThis Mother has the makings of a powerful "intactivist" if the community would just reach out and support her in coming to terms with her son's death. She needs help directing her anger toward the doctors who performed this surgery, even if it was the family's idea. Doctors should have never agreed because of the baby's fragile state.
ReplyDeleteJosh's Momma, I heart breaks for you. I am so sorry you lost your sweet boy.
@Hugh7: this is a textbook case of a baby who never should have been circumcised. Regardless of if it was the family's original idea, the #1 thing was to "First, do no harm". The doctors failed in their duty. At the very least, they should have informed the family of the risks, AND then refused to do it!
ReplyDeleteI cannot reproach anything to the family. The family is not medical staff. They probably just thought that circ was "the thing to do", and nobody ever told them otherwise. As a matter of fact, the mom wrote in her blog that the "doctor ordered the circumcision to be done today", and that they were misinformed that if done later, the procedure WOULD create MORE BLEEDING!
So, the family went along with "doctors know best". Now, they naturally must feel very traumatised because of everything, and for this, my heart goes out to them. I cried when I read of Joshua's death.
I offer the family my deepest sympathies because there can be no greater cross to bear than the loss of a child Nothing. Nothing. Nothing at all.
The problem now is very delicate. For sure the parents must be blaming themselves, because after all, they initially approached the hospital. So, they probably feel very guilty. However, this situation is very convenient for the doc, who prey upon the situation.
To assuage the parents' fears, the docs reassured them that the death was totally not related to the circ. Curiously though, the baby was doing fine until then, and died in less than 24 hours following the circ, and following excessive bleeding from a cut artery.
By telling the parents that the death is NOT circ related, the docs are actually protecting themselves. Because they make it sound like if the baby would have died anyway. If that were the case, that they were truly expecting the baby to die any way, then there would have been absolutely ZERO JUSTIFICATION to proceed with circumcision of an infant who was allegedly to die anyway. NONE.
The docs are at fault. They are covering it up. THe parents are happy to accept the version given by the docs to stop their guilt.
The really guilty ones are the doctors who proceeded with the circumcision, not the parents. However, probably the only way to confirm this is with an autopsy.In any case, yes, the COroner SHOULD GET INVOLVED, if only to determine whether the death was indeed as a complication from circumcision, or not.
THink of it this way. In the unlikely event that the death was totally unrelated to circ, the parents and docs can all rest easy. They could not have prevented the death.
On the other hand, if death is a complication of circ, then the family can at least sue for the loss of their baby. Protocol can be put in place to avoid any other unnecessary circumcision of any babies in a compromised state.The public at large will lear about it, and also be alert to the dangers of circ, esp. on a weak baby. Many lives may be saved, and baby Joshua's death will not have been in vain.- Fanny M
“Q: Can I contact the Coroner's office?
ReplyDeleteA: Certainly, you may call (317) 327- 4744 between 8 a.m. and 4:30 p.m., Monday - Friday or leave a message on the answering machine. You may also submit your query via this website.”
PLEASE CONTACT THE CORONER.
Why should the coroner be involved? There are TWO, possibly THREE main reasons to invoke WHY the coroner’s office MUST GET INVOLVED. (For a list of the reasons when the coroner must get involved, see this link on Death Investigation and Case Management: http://marioncountycoroner.org/faq/2-case-management.)
#1) The Coroner gets involved in the Sudden death of a healthy child.
At the time he was circumcised, Joshua Haskins was supposedly “stable” enough to undergo elective, cosmetic surgery. This is would imply that at the time of the circumcision he must have been a relatively “healthy” child, fulfilling criterion #1.
#7) Alternatively, it may be held that he died “Following an accident o injury primary or contributory, either old or recent, criterion #7, in that the “accident” that happened was the severing of his penis’ artery during the circumcision, which in turn resulted in excessive bleeding, cardiac arrest and death.
#3) Depending on how precise the Chart or the Death certificate is, #3 (Physician unable to state cause of death, after careful review of medical chart, or decedent does not have a physician) may or may not apply, depending on how precise the cause of death is in the chart or death certificate. No doubt here the physicians were quick to state a cause of death, thereby circumventing or trying to circumvent the involvement of the coroner. However, if they just stated something general like cardiac arrest, it may be that the coroner’s office will agree that that is NOT enough. What was the underlying cause for the cardiac arrest?
Note that it appears to be that the Coroner’s office is the one to actually issue the death certificate, so they indeed should be interested in probing further.
I see nothing from the info available to the public as to why only the family could request the involvement of the coroner. In my opinion, I believe that any person with the knowledge of a “suspicious” death has a duty to come forward, and the Coroner has a duty to investigate.
For more on the topic, see this link on Death Investigation and Case Management:
http://marioncountycoroner.org/faq/2-case-management
Furthermore, “As citizen of Indiana, you (Baby Joshua Haskins) are served by a County Coroner. This person "Speaks for the Dead" by investigating suspicious, threatening or unusual deaths. Baby Joshua Jenkins’ death was definitely of a suspicious nature. Please, please, write to the coroner!
Note that he is elected, so he has every reason to carry out his job correctly.
“About the Marion County Coroner
Dr. Frank P. Lloyd, Jr., MD grew up in Indianapolis in Butler Tarkington and attended Indianpolis schools. He graduated from DePauw University and Indiana University School of Medicine. His desire to find answers to complex medical questions led him into research. A Coroner needs to: 1)Set high standards for quality service; 2)Care and console families in times of stress; 3)Lead a team of experts to find the cause and manner of each death; 4)Speak for those who are not able to speak for themselves.” (from this link: http://www.indy.gov/eGov/County/Coroner/Pages/home.aspx
Please demand, on behalf of Joshua Haskins, citizen, that the coroner investigates his untimely death. -FannyM
Do you have any proof of your claims about how many baby's die each year from getting circ'd? Are you saying world wide? Is this including 3rd world countries where antibiotics aren't readily available?
ReplyDeleteShe removed all the info from her blog I believe it needs to be backed up for future reference, I believe the Doctors are to blame for this, the doctor told her it was safe, the doctor lied.
ReplyDeleteGotta wonder if it was actual intactavists or pro-circs making us look bad?
ReplyDeleteThe rumors that intactivists were behind these terrible things said to her originates from three sources: "CircInfo" on Twitter, and bloggers "NavalGazing Midwife," and "The Feminist Breeder." Pro-circs are getting so desperate so as to try smear tactics. Intactivists, beware these users, and warn others of their antics.
ReplyDeleteRe: the rumors. Wow, how very ironic that these pro-circ people harassed the bereaved mother by trying to worry her about the funeral being crashed... and their whole lie was ABOUT intactivists doing exactly the sort of harassment that they themselves actually DID... it is sort of like a logic puzzle...
ReplyDeleteIt's no puzzle. It is obvious that the circumcision double-think just runs that deep.
ReplyDeleteHow can I contact the mother to send my condolences and explain that intactivists were not behind it. I wish I knew how to use twitter...
As I re-read the mother's blog entry, it becomes more and more apparent that she and her husband were under pressure from the doctor to circumcise their baby -- which pressure cannot be easy to withstand when you are already in a mentally and psychologically weakened state after weeks of watching your baby be tortured by the sadistic protocols of the medical staff running NICU units.
ReplyDeleteListen to the mother's words:
"..the doctor didn't want to wait any longer to get it done. There is a risk that comes with having Joshua circumcised. Once the babies are bigger, they run a higher risk of bleeding too much. The longer we wait, the higher the risk of bleeding. So the doctor ordered for it to be done TODAY."
and again:
"...They have told us over and over that the bigger the baby gets, the more likely they are to bleed. They are trying to get the circ's done right after birth due to the bleeding risk..."
And then the final straw:
"...Apparently they knicked an arteri and that is why he wasn't stopping [bleeding]..."
The doctor needs her ass sued BIG-TIME! As far as I'm concerned, every single one of the medical staff that was involved in this procedure is responsible for this baby's death and needs to be SUED. The rage within me just wells-up when I think about the pressure parents are under from these scissor-happy maniacs.... i.e., parents who obviously are not in their right minds because they have been and are being exposed to so much trauma.
What an unbelievable outrage.
EVERYONE should know what Dr. Taylor thinks about circumcision and the heart.
ReplyDeletehttp://research.cirp.org/ World's foremost penis expert Dr. John Taylor's site
@Curious
ReplyDeletemore on circumcision death rates in references below (the latest publications this year showed 117 neonatal boys in the U.S. die from circumcision complications):
Bollinger, Dan. Lost Boys: An Estimate of U.S. Circumcision-Related Infant Deaths. Thymos: Journal of Boyhood Studies. 2010;4(1):78-90.
http://www.cirp.org/library/death/
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/pdf/specialstatement.pdf
http://www.circumstitions.com/Complic.html
http://www.noharmm.org/incidenceUS.htm
Older study found aprx 220 died from circumcision in the U.S. per year:
Baker RL. Newborn male circumcision: needless and dangerous. Sexual Medicine Today. 1979;3(11):35-36.
More analysis of these figures (and why they are under reported):
http://www.drmomma.org/2010/05/death-from-circumcision.html
Death rates due to circumcision in nations where it is pushed under less sterile (or even less regulated) conditions are much higher than in the U.S. (Africa, for example, has seen more death from circumcision in the past year on boys facing the knife as children). However, the U.S. is the only nation that continues to cut boys in the neonatal period for non-religious reasons.
National organization of circumcision information resource centers 2010 newsletter:
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/2010nocirc-newsletter-web.pdf
Several texts examine past research on this subject as well:
http://astore.amazon.com/peacefparent-20?_encoding=UTF8&node=2
Thank you for seeking to educate people about the risks of circumcision. I tweeted this post and got in trouble from some circumcision happy tweeter. I'm sure you get a fair amount of negative feedback, but thanks for continuing to educate so more boys stay intact!!! I will continue to spread the word with links to your wonderfully informative posts! :)
ReplyDeleteThere is a long and growing list of circumcision deaths at:
ReplyDeletehttp://intact.wikia.com/wiki/Death_From_Circumcision
Joshua wasn't the first, and he won't be the last baby to die following circumcision, if doctors don't stop performing this unnecesssary, harmful surgery. This list only contains the names of those publicly known. How long will it be before more names are added to this list?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis was written on the mother's blog on Wed, Oct 20th:
ReplyDelete"Also, just because I don't want to lie or not disclose the full truth to so many of you who have really cared about us, (I really hope there isn't an anti group for this one!) Shane and I decided, the day Joshua died, to cremate him. We made that decision within hours of Joshua's death (before we knew of all of the controversy surrounding his death). We are not originally from Huntington, and we don't plan on staying here for ever. We couldn't bear the thought of burying him and then possibly moving far away and leaving him here. I didn't want to post that we cremated him, because I was am afraid that people would attack us for that decision as well. We are not trying to hide anything in regards to his death, we simply want to keep him with us wherever we go, and burying him would not allow us to do that. The coroner signed off on his death last week and he was cremated on Thursday. We are now in the process of looking for an urn which seems to be a tough task. We can't find anything that we love and want to keep him in."
It seems the mother (or both parents?) are doing a lot to capitalize on Joshua's death. First, Tweeting and blogging through her son's tragedy and death, falsifying stories about intactivists to get 'hits', asking Ellen to pay attention to her (and, again, stories that were made up most certainly by pro-MGM persons), telling other bloggers that his funeral had protesters (?!), taking a trip (leaving her other kids behind) to go visit and meet new 'followers' just days after Joshua dies, and today leaving this message for readers:
ReplyDelete"i'm only 11 people away from 400 followers on my blog & only 1 person away from 1000 followers on twitter. let's make it nice & even! help?!"
Maybe we shouldn't feed into the drama by linking back to the site in the first place. :( Especially now that she removed all the 'evidence' of her early blog posts when this happened. Maybe linking to another location where the screen shots are readily available, or another site where many babies who have died after circumcision (due to hemorrhage and heart failure) is more productive.
I heard someone mention euthanasia as it pertains to this case the other day... At first it sounded like a crazy idea - someone 'mercy' kills a baby via circumcision? But the more and more I read (both things the mother wrote and others that her friends have posted) and all that seems to be surfacing... now it doesn't seem like such a bizarre far-fetched idea. Twisted, yes. But almost buyable. What a sick world we live in.
Sad how sometimes it takes a tragedy to open someone's eyes.
ReplyDeleteHer (the mother) eyes have not been opened, unfortunately...and she has stated that she still believes in circumcision.
ReplyDeleteLets not bash a mother who has suffered a loss.....
ReplyDeleteI see no bashing here. Simple information that all parents have a right to be aware of - that which should have been given to these folks in the first place.
ReplyDeleteThat you suffer a loss does not excuse a parent. Remember the mother who stuck her sons in a car and drowned them by driving the car into a river? Remember the mother who threw her children over a bridge into a bay? Yeah. Those mothers "suffered a loss" too. Let's not have too much sympathy for a mother who: a) Did not listen to advice b) Did not listen to her own conscience c) Kept denying the truth d) Attacked those who kept trying to tell her e) Destroyed the evidence (she cremated her son's body) took down her blog where it shows what happened in full detail and has tried to put a gag on those who know the truth.
ReplyDeleteLet's not bash parents who "suffered a loss," but at the same time, let's not have sympathy for willful and hopeless ignorance.
Some people don't know that this mother was explicitly warned beforehand that the circumcision could very easily kill her unhealthy child.
ReplyDeletePeople flooded her page with accurate info & she demanded that we "respect" her "choice" to have an elective surgery forced on her son that would ultimately kill him.
She then basically lied & said after her son had passed that no one warned her & that she didn't know anyone was against circumcision. Then she erased the evidence in her blog.
She also went on to publish absolute falsifications about intactivists, such as that there was a planned "protest" of her baby's funeral, & she proceeded to tattle-tale to the Ellen DeGeneres show via Twitter.
So while I won't call her a bad mom, I will say that not only did she make a glaringly obviously terrible decision, she also lost some respect by lying & otherwise acting not like a grieving mother, but like a circumcising conspirator.
I believe it is her own pride that is making her excuse her choice & excuse the insane doctors that killed her baby, which is a difficult pill to swallow. I would hope she would take up the cause of intactivism -- there is no excuse for such ignorance after seeing a circumcision death played out right before your eyes.
Darlene - have you heard anything further about the progress of this case from Doctors Opposing Circumcision? This is the first I've seen that letter you posted.
ReplyDeleteAnd KristenT - you're right. She was warned many, many times. She ignored us, and they (she and her husband) made a horrible and negligent choice that ultimately killed the baby. Then she pretended complete ignorance; as if she had NO clue how dangerous it might be for him. How convenient. But also a lie. I have little respect for such obnoxious behavior. She's trying to cover her butt by erasing the information - just like the doctors were trying to cover their butts by claiming it was Joshua's heart problem ALONE that killed him (and not the botched, unnecessary procedure that caused him to bleed for several hours).
The story from the mother's own words:
ReplyDeletehttp://guggiedaly.blogspot.com/2011/01/tragic-story-of-joshuas-death-according.html
Oh my, they are going to cut another baby :(
ReplyDeleteLook -
http://fierceandfiesty.blogspot.com/2011/06/baby-in-mommys-tummy-is.html
“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” -Albert Einstein
ReplyDeleteDear God, your desire to give ALL people another chance is hard for me to accept. My heart is broken and bile builds in my throat. Give me the gift of compassion before I fall into a deeper depression.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they won't circ. She said "maybe we will, maybe we won't" but was clear she would not say either way.
ReplyDelete@ the last Anon -
ReplyDeleteParents who keep their children whole and protect their integrity and bodily autonomy have nothing to hide. I've never known someone to "keep it a secret" if they honor their baby's right to wholeness and a life without unnecessary inflicted harm.
It is those who do cut their children or harm or abuse them in other ways who must stay hush-hush about it and keep the aggressive acts under cover.
Parents with intact babies post cute little naked baby photos in their albums, and have nothing to hide, nothing to be ashamed of. Parents with babies who were genitally cut apart after birth rarely post naked baby photos - their child always has a diaper on. The intuitive knowing that something is wrong is obvious in this simple example of difference.
When a parent says, "I'll do whatever I want" or tries to push buttons with "Maybe I will - maybe I won't" or "It's my right to do whatever is best [for me] to my kids" rarely is it ever something good... These are statements made from a position of selfish intent and those that hide the magnitude of the brutality that they plan to inflict on this child.
It is almost amazing that here we are talking about someone who is playing around - almost jokingly - teasingly - with the idea of cutting up her infant son's penis.
Can you imagine anything more disturbing?
And we joke about it as though it is "no big deal" -- but this is a human being, who will be born to someone that has no regard for the safe keeping of his tiny, perfect body. And then openly, publicly, loudly, displays these attitudes for the world to see. How terribly sad for these children. Hopefully with them the cycle of violence will end, that they'll be able to rise above the location their parents were not able to.
Almost a year to the day that Joshua died from circumcision and heart failure, another newborn crashes post-genital cutting.
ReplyDeleteIf only the parents in this situation would recognize MGM for what it is, and speak out along with the advocacy work they are doing for heart conditions -- maybe more boys would not face the perils that Joshua and now this little one have:
http://herald-citizen.com/bookmark/16061531/article-Mom
SO sad :( my friend just called me to tell me that she had a customer come through her line to buy flowers for their baby that passed, she asked from what (if they didn't mind sharing) and they told her circumcision complications :(
ReplyDeleteSO sad, and it HAPPENS people. why is this still happening to our little boys??? my friend isn't anywhere near having kids, not even in a relationship, but she swore up and down she would circumcise her boy if she ever has one despite everything i've shared with her.. now, she said she won't. i'm OVERJOYED she won't, but i'm sadded that it took this for her to change her mind :/
My aunt is a lactation consultant and was working with a new mother last week whose baby died the following morning after circumcision. He was perfectly healthy and did not have any heart complications that they could find. She is really shaken up over it, and had heard of it happening in other areas as well, but this is the first time she's had direct contact with a mother and baby who have experienced circumcision related death. It is so unnecessary and this mother was unsure even if she wanted to follow through with it, but they are in an area where she was pressured to do so. I just can't imagine. This is happening to even healthy babies.
ReplyDeleteJoshua's younger brother, Luke, was born today. Here's hoping he stays perfectly whole as God created him, and that his mother listens to her instincts to protect this new human being.
ReplyDeletehttp://fierceandfiesty.blogspot.com/2011/11/hes-here.html?m=0
Honestly, I had no idea about the huge stress circumcision plays on the human body. I never thought it could cause cardiac arrest. I have a 3 year old little boy. I did not have him circumcised because I am aware that it is painful and I did not want to inflict that onto my newborn child. But I never knew that a baby could die as a result. What a tragedy? A totally preventable death. It makes me really sad that people still perform this on a little baby.
ReplyDeleteConnor James, 7 lbs. 8 oz. 21 inches, born Friday, November 25, 2011, in Pittsburgh, died last night of blood loss from circumcision.
ReplyDeleteThis is just so tragic.
ReplyDelete